Curse

leguma · Jan 08, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Two Warriors. both lvl 20, both have max armor (or appears to be), one has rank 3, one has no rank.

Which is the better player? Automatically we assume its the rank 3. But this assumption can be very wrong. It can also be right.

The rankless player could be a rank 2, only a few fights away from rank 3. But he cant show it and he could be lying.

But, if the rank 2 player is indeed just as good as the rank 3 player, his skill will make up for the lack of having a /bambi

A company is looking to hire one individual for a contract job. The individual will be paid to perform cetain tasks that are needed of him (in GW, my time=money, and when taking a random I am basically paying with my time). Of the two people that apply, one has seeveral recomandations, and an extensive CV. The other has maybe one or two entries on his CV.
Which one are you going to take? Which one will you be investing your money (time in)? Which one is more likely to get the job done?

Why is it that job requirements are perfectly fine, but rank requirement is discrimination? I don't want to waste my time, and I doubt anybody else does.

Lord Mendes · Jan 08, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin_of_ni

Ok well then since no one did anything for you then why not do it for someone else? at least 1 person. thats all im sayin. It would do more good then bad and you never know you may even stuble across someone with a knack for builds or a talent to it. Dont be afraid to experiemtn with players as much as you would with builds.

My guild decided to open recruitment for a couple of days when we heard ATs were coming and they were time specific. Three of these recruits are likely going to get accepted. Do you want to know what rank they are? They are all rank 3 or 4. Even though my guild is a rank 8/9+ guild with a history in HA, we accepted 3 bambis because they proved themselves. They made the effort to play and improve and got recognized for their potential. We gave them a chance and they proved themselves.
You want me to give the 12 year old kid whining about rank elitism a chance? No way in hell.

lyra_song · Jan 08, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by leguma

A company is looking to hire one individual for a contract job. The individual will be paid to perform cetain tasks that are needed of him (in GW, my time=money, and when taking a random I am basically paying with my time). Of the two people that apply, one has seeveral recomandations, and an extensive CV. The other has maybe one or two entries on his CV.
Which one are you going to take? Which one will you be investing your money (time in)? Which one is more likely to get the job done?

Why is it that job requirements are perfectly fine, but rank requirement is discrimination? I don't want to waste my time, and I doubt anybody else does.

Yes, but resumes are verifiable via phone calls, etc. Its a more extensive showing of your history. Rank is not.

Lord Mendes · Jan 08, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I would agree with you there, regardless of wether you pulled it our your ass or not. However we are still making assumptions

Assuming that someone with more experience in a field will do better than someone with very little experience in the same field is almost always a much safer bet. Yes, this is an assumption based on observations.

Now the reason I am posing all this crap is because some blame everything on rank discrimination, but they do not understand that rank is not the cause of all evil in HA.

assassin_of_ni · Jan 08, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

1.) its a gaaaaaaame
2.)its a friggin gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmeeeeeeeeee
3.)its a friggin gaaame ffs >_<

Using a contract job as an anology to a descrimination on a game is entirely different because of the fact that in real life you cant farm reccomendations like most people have in GW during the good ol' Iway days. Its more or less the fact that people in GW could actually have skill or they may have farmed it or may have bought it from ebay. Its more or less the matter of which one your gonna trust more. Now in personal experience ive seen more r9's ragequit or resign over some pretty dumb things like a monk has 15% dp oh noes /ragequit ftl and some pugs ive been in ive seen with better co-ordination than r6+ guild groups with vent/ts. Basically the point is that Real life cannot be accuratly compared to GW due to the fact of the many false ways of getting rank and looking like teh uber leetsaucedness as compared to real life being ok if anything on this app is false then it can come back on you with much greater consequences

assassin_of_ni · Jan 08, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

well if the kid openly admitting he is 12 (which im not bringing age as a factor just quoting) and whining then thats what i belive an ignore list is for lol. But hypothetically say your a guild group lf r6/9 whatever monk, I pm you saying i have the build but im just under r3 and obviouslly cannot prove this, but there are no other monks that are lfg. You cannot tell me honestly youde accept me into the group where as far as your aware im 6-9 ranks lower than everyone else, thats the descrimination im talking about. its the generalization that unless you can make a few shiney farm animals your not worth the time

Lord Mendes · Jan 08, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin_of_ni

1.) its a gaaaaaaame
2.)its a friggin gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmeeeeeeeeee
3.)its a friggin gaaame ffs >_<

Using a contract job as an anology to a descrimination on a game is entirely different because of the fact that in real life you cant farm reccomendations like most people have in GW during the good ol' Iway days. Its more or less the fact that people in GW could actually have skill or they may have farmed it or may have bought it from ebay. Its more or less the matter of which one your gonna trust more. Now in personal experience ive seen more r9's ragequit or resign over some pretty dumb things like a monk has 15% dp oh noes /ragequit ftl and some pugs ive been in ive seen with better co-ordination than r6+ guild groups with vent/ts. Basically the point is that Real life cannot be accuratly compared to GW due to the fact of the many false ways of getting rank and looking like teh uber leetsaucedness as compared to real life being ok if anything on this app is false then it can come back on you with much greater consequences

Are you arguying that rank is not a somewhat effective way to see whether someone has enough experience in HA?

assassin_of_ni · Jan 08, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

no obviously its "effective" thats what its there for, but its too heavily relied upon imo

bhavv · Jan 08, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by leguma

That statement really shows exactly how much experience you have and how well you play and understand this game. Stating that you can play each and every profession and build in this game with the same level of skill is such a arrogant, deluded and downright amusing claim.

I think even Kurt The Behemoth has a better understanding of HA, the metagame and the effects of the party size change. If you think FOTM was rampant and a problem back then, I suggest you do a little experiment... Make a team with 2 necro/monk and no jagged bones or spirits in it, and go in. You will find that 8/10 games your healers will function perfectly fine just making use of the dying things provided by the enemy.

Kurt > bhavv @ PvP

OMG And so what about how good or bad I am at pvp in your stupid opinion? I play HA just fine and most likely a lot better then you can. The reason why I can play ever class fine is because I TA a heck of a lot with EVERYTHING. I then go into HA and play those builds, ANY builds that are required and get plenty of fame just fine thank you. If you cant do that, shame.

And again, I said I find 6v6 just as fun to play as 8v8, but 8v8 will obviously be too much more overpowered, e.g with regard to the example in your second paragraph,

8v8 will be even worse with 3 Necro healers, and an extra spirit spammer carrying whatever spirits the other one doesnt have lol.

If you cant even see the reason in that, you are stupid. Go buy a brain.

More players = More Spirits + more necro healers = More energy + more healing.

Sure you can take spiritual pain in your extra slots. The quicker you kill the spirits, the more they heal lol.

8v8 WILL be to overpowered. People that cant understand that are just stuck up their 'leet sauz' covered backsides.

Lord Mendes · Jan 08, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin_of_ni

no obviously its "effective" thats what its there for, but its too heavily relied upon imo

Well what else could you rely on? You can take chances with unranked PuGs but after a while you get sick of people running unconventional builds and making your team perform at a sup bar level.
Sorry...

leguma · Jan 08, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Yes, but resumes are verifiable via phone calls, etc. Its a more extensive showing of your history. Rank is not.

Pahlease. If you ask for 2 years experience as X, and their resume has 2000-2005 worked as X for Y, how is that extensive. As for the verification through phone, that ony ever happens if they suspect something or the job is a very high profile one. And before you say "yes but they can ask you about your work experience" and whatnot, my answer is yes, they can ask you, but only AFTER and IF you meet the minimum requirement on your CV. It is the EXACT same thing as rank, if you want to make sure, you can always ask them whatever, but that comes after the part with meeting the minimum requirements.

Again, how is it that job requirements are ok, but rank requirement is a discrimination? As for it being used too heavily, again, I don't want to waste my time. Do you want to waste your time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

8v8 will be even worse with 3 Necro healers, and an extra spirit spammer carrying whatever spirits the other one doesnt have lol.

If you cant even see the reason in that, you are stupid. Go buy a brain.

More players = More Spirits + more necro healers = More energy + more healing.

Sure you can take spiritual pain in your extra slots. The quicker you kill the spirits, the more they heal lol.

8v8 WILL be to overpowered. People that cant understand that are just stuck up their 'leet sauz' covered backsides.

You should have pled the 5th amendment.

coleslawdressin · Jan 08, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

What 6v6 ruined was IWAY, and spike which require no still whatsoever to play, and now the cry baby 'leet' players that only ever IWAY'd and spiked have had their bottles taken away from them.

GET OVER IT. 6v6 has not ruined aything from a gameplay perspective, it is exactly as much fun to HA now as it ever was.

Haha.. pretty funny. I tried IWAY like 3 times AFTER I got rank 10 just for the hell of it. I played blood spike a LONGGGGGG time ago.. when it was just a fun gimmick that didn't work so great and almost nobody used it. Sure, I played some rangerspike or or dual migraine or whatever holding spike at times.. If tombs is dead and you have the option to either join a team that has a good chance of winning or join some low ranked pug that seems destined for failure, what will you choose? Anyone who knows me though....... They know that when I lead teams I played creative builds, usually hex/condition pressure or something outrageous and never attempted before.

6v6 ruined assloads of fun builds that I used to play. From just reading what you have to say it is pretty easy to tell that you are a bad player and I would never want to be on your team. If you enjoy 6v6 just as much, you probably nab all of your builds from obs mode.. If you ever made tombs builds, you would know how boring and limited 6v6 is.

All of you crying about rank elitism need to get some social networking ability. Nobody did crap for me when I was low ranked and nobody owes you a group. I got into higher ranked pugs because I proved that I knew what I was doing. I won halls a bit with my name and beat the higher ranked teams that wouldn't take me. Right before tombs went 6v6, I was doing what amounts to "charity work" lol.. I took a build from some buddies in [Rift] that was basically 3 competent players on vent using a mesmer, ranger and rit + 5 random newbies without vent playing whatever.. we suggested fire eles. I kind of added a single Mo/N infuser with OOB, heal party and vamp swarm, because it was fun and that is what I chose to play randomly the first time I joined them. We rolled over many IWAYs, blood spikes, and r9+ teams. We won halls quite often with it too.. oh well another build that would never work in 6v6 :/ When I was playing a real build and couldn't get people from friendslist, I would usually spam for r9+ or competent _____char... It wasn't too often that low rankers had vent or seemed to know how to play the character, but I met a few good players. Teams that are random pugs based on rank almost always lose or disband before they even get going... Rank is still important because it shows a bit about your experience. Rank doesn't stop you from making friends or a guild of low ranked people and going in to play.

Sarevok Thordin · Jan 08, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Well what else could you rely on? You can take chances with unranked PuGs but after a while you get sick of people running unconventional builds and making your team perform at a sup bar level.
Sorry...

Isn't that why they implamented build calling in outposts? O_o

I sure ask for it alot...

Y O U Lo Se · Jan 08, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

OMG And so what about how good or bad I am at pvp in your stupid opinion? I play HA just fine and most likely a lot better then you can. The reason why I can play ever class fine is because I TA a heck of a lot with EVERYTHING. I then go into HA and play those builds, ANY builds that are required and get plenty of fame just fine thank you. If you cant do that, shame.

And again, I said I find 6v6 just as fun to play as 8v8, but 8v8 will obviously be too much more overpowered, e.g with regard to the example in your second paragraph,

8v8 will be even worse with 3 Necro healers, and an extra spirit spammer carrying whatever spirits the other one doesnt have lol.

If you cant even see the reason in that, you are stupid. Go buy a brain.

More players = More Spirits + more necro healers = More energy + more healing.

Sure you can take spiritual pain in your extra slots. The quicker you kill the spirits, the more they heal lol.

8v8 WILL be to overpowered. People that cant understand that are just stuck up their 'leet sauz' covered backsides.

No it wont be MORE overpowered, did you forget your opponent can also take 8 chars into the game? It won't be 8v6...

There's a LOT more space for counterbuilds in 8v8, get interupt rangers and interupt those rits and kill the "healers" (they cant heal sh*t without heavy energymanagement). In the current 6v6 there's almost no space for interupt rangers, if you take interuptrangers you lose the needed defense like wards and other warrior hate.

I think those builds will still be overpowered in 8v8, but nothing more or less then in 6v6.

tal raasha · Jan 08, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

i would personally like a summary statistic after each game for each player (like warcraft XD)

coz we would like to know the damage output/health healed, damage received, no. of spell casted and the energy usage of self and team members, this would help recognise who is the noob in team disregarding their "rank", coz for many times i played with high rank people that kinda sucked, and THEN they spam their tiger emote.....

That works for pve as well...say like unit kill by each player or whatever

Bread Fan · Jan 08, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

8v8 will be even worse with 3 Necro healers, and an extra spirit spammer carrying whatever spirits the other one doesnt have lol.

If you cant even see the reason in that, you are stupid. Go buy a brain.

More players = More Spirits + more necro healers = More energy + more healing.

Sure you can take spiritual pain in your extra slots. The quicker you kill the spirits, the more they heal lol.

8v8 WILL be to overpowered. People that cant understand that are just stuck up their 'leet sauz' covered backsides.

Hahaha now that was funny. With 8v8 you will have the option to bring a dedicated interrupter as well as a shock war with d blow etc. After these so called spirit spammers have no spirits up for energy they will crumble. Now I see why you mainly play TA.

Y O U Lo Se · Jan 08, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal raasha

i would personally like a summary statistic after each game for each player (like warcraft XD)

coz we would like to know the damage output/health healed, damage received, no. of spell casted and the energy usage of self and team members, this would help recognise who is the noob in team disregarding their "rank", coz for many times i played with high rank people that sucked.....

That works for pve as well...say like unit kill or whatever

Wth? How would the amount of health healed show any skill? How more dmg you took the more you suck? Kinda sux if you're playing a monk isn't it? So an SF ele spamming SF and glowing gaze shows more skill then someone using their spells in a good way not spamming them?

People are better when they're playing a high dmg warrior then if they're playing a kick-ass interupt ranger with no dmg?

That would be stupid, that probably shows less of your experience and skill then rank would.

Lord Mendes · Jan 08, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Isn't that why they implamented build calling in outposts? O_o

I sure ask for it alot...

Regardless of that, a lot of technics used for effectively monking on altar maps are gained through experience.
It is just one of those things you have to see for yourself before you truly understand the value of someone that has played more.

assassin_of_ni · Jan 08, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Ok well i had an idea after running around HA and not getting replies from anyone who wants to let someone with no rank into a group even though im one of 2 maybe 3 monks in HA atm. anyrate how about as a kind of...interveiw.....say you post r3 guild grp RC monk of sandstorm ward ele or something kinda stapleish. Someone comes along....tra lalalala....and tells you Ok im not r3 but i have the build can i plz join or whatever it is kids say these days. Invite them to the grp and have them ping the build. Some of the newer players or the more arrogant ones that just like to lie their way into groups for rank farm will not even catch this ping their build and it will be completely wrong. so out the winder they go. Ok now say they ping it and its the right build. Ask em what they have in atts....if its all up to code then you have someone who knows wtf theyre doing yet has no way to show it =O *plays ff7 level up theme*

Lord Mendes · Jan 08, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y O U Lo Se

So an SF ele spamming SF and glowing gaze shows more skill then someone using their spells in a good way not spamming them?

/looks at guild tag.
Maybe that's what he wants :P

EDIT: not taking the piss. <3 Meow.